Overcome Addictions & Obsessions of All Kinds | Dr. Anna Lembke

“Good to see you again, Andrew. Great to have you back. Your book, Dopamine Nation, and many things that you were saying in and around that book have become true. So I want to start off by saying thank you. You were right. Most of the world is addicted to the internet in some form, social media.”

“And so, yes, I mean, the dopamine nation is all about that we live in a drugified world, that almost everything has become more accessible, more reinforcing, more plentiful, you know, making us all more vulnerable to the problem of addiction.”

“There are access risk factors. So, and then that's one of the main focuses of Dopamine Nation, like simply having access to a drug means you're more likely to use it, more likely to change your brain in the process, and more likely to get addicted, which is also why addiction doesn't discriminate.”

“It is completely adaptive to do that. What I am talking about is the mismatch, and it's a similar argument with dopamine nation. The mismatch in dopamine nation that I talked about is this plenty paradox where we reflexively approach pleasure and avoid pain.”

“Like when I finished dopamine nation, I knew I wanted to write radical surrender. I originally had a chapter in dopamine nation on spiritual surrender and its role in recovery. I ended up cutting it because I couldn't do it justice.”

“And it's always good for us to understand how the world is acting on us and how we're acting in the world. And I love the topic of the new book. I think it's fantastic. I can't wait to read it. As I loved and continue to, you know, talk uncontrollably about Dopamine Nation.”

“overcome each of them. We also discussed her new book, Radical Surrender, which I can tell you because I've read it is an absolutely fascinating and actionable exploration into how giving up our attempt to control certain things actually allows our brain to access new strategies to overcome major challenges, including addiction, as well as codependency, and altogether live healthier, better lives.”

“I want to talk about your new book, A Radical Surrender, and I want to talk about the spirituality piece. But before I do that, I want to just ask your opinion about two areas related to addiction that we see a lot of online.”

“It works great in a world of scarcity. It's a disaster in a world of plenty. In radical surrender, I'm talking about a control paradox where we evolved to reduce uncertainty in a chaotic world. That was essentially our teleologic mandate, right, or our reason for existence.”

“existential crisis in the form of, as I talk about in Radical Surrender, our son being diagnosed with and dying from leukemia. Like that, I did many hours of psychotherapy.”

“Like when I finished dopamine nation, I knew I wanted to write radical surrender. I originally had a chapter in dopamine nation on spiritual surrender and its role in recovery. I ended up cutting it because I couldn't do it justice.”

“offers me, what life calls me to do. Anna, thank you so much for coming here to talk about Radical Surrender, revisit the addiction material, some of which we touched on before, but most of which, you know, will be novel to people.”

“For example, in mice and rats, chocolate increases dopamine firing 55% above baseline. Sex is 100%, nicotine is 150%, all the way up until methamphetamines, which is 1,000%, which is why I like to say that's why we first have dinner, then have sex, then have a cigarette.”⚑ Under review

“So we will ask people to give up more than one substance if they're obviously paired. So, for example, if drinking coffee is almost always followed by craving for a cigarette, then we might ask them to give up caffeine and the cigarettes, you know, for this period of time.”

“And that's things like buprenorphine or methadone to treat opioid addiction. I realize the answer to the question I'm about to ask doesn't really exist in the mechanistic neurobiological literature, but clinically speaking, I'm curious how the following scenario might work.”

“I've never been a powder taker, except creatine. I confess, I confess it's better in my life. You do you, but it's better in my life. And this need to quantify.”

“I know so many people that are codependent with addicts. Yes, and you know, we all have to ask ourselves, like, you know, like uh, like I have the Furbo thing to monitor my dog, yeah, right, exactly. The technology, right? It's actually worse. We were on vacation the summer in Europe, and at one point, my girlfriend and I were like, Let's not look at”

“everything else, other psychosocial interventions, other medications, some of those patients, when we put them on a GLP-1, they get into recovery when nothing else works. So that's very exciting because in general, what we find is that no matter what the tool is, it's only going to work for some of the people.”

“And that's things like buprenorphine or methadone to treat opioid addiction. I realize the answer to the question I'm about to ask doesn't really exist in the mechanistic neurobiological literature, but clinically speaking, I'm curious how the following scenario might work.”